EP01: “For the Industry, By the Industry”

Episode Transcript

Art Carter  00:00

All of those podcasts when they deal with MLS issues are dealing from the MLS, from the outside in, and there’s really no voice out there talking from the MLS out. 

Katie Smithson  00:10

Our goal is going to be to bring in those different players, not just from the MLS side, not just from the vendor side, but, like you said, the agent side, the broker perspective, and have these conversations.

Art Carter  00:21

A firm believer that every MLS really should control their data, experience and as much as they possibly can.

Katie Smithson  00:27

If there were one thing about the MLS industry that you could change, what would it be? 

Katie Smithson  00:27

Welcome to REpod — the organized real estate podcast, for the industry, by the industry. This is where MLS leaders, association executives, and brokers come to rethink operations, simplify complexity, and build systems that actually work together. Join the REcore team as we challenge outdated processes, explore smarter technology, and have honest conversations about the future of real estate. Let’s get into it. Hello and welcome to the inaugural episode of REpod, a new podcast hosted by the team at REcore. So what we wanted to do today is, first and foremost, I want to introduce our CEO, the infamous Art Carter. I’m sure most people know who Art is, but I just want to say, from my personal experience, I’ve known Art for almost the entire 17 years I’ve been in this industry. It’s hard for me to admit that I am that old, but that aside, I’ve known Art through reso, through being a customer at W and R studios, and now I’ve had the pleasure of working for him for the past three years. So Art, I would just like to turn this over to you for just your kind of quit. Take just overview of how long you’ve been in the industry, the different positions you’ve held and where we are today. 

Art Carter  02:08

If I could, Katie, I’d like to take a second and kind of explain something that was puzzling me last night, why another podcast? Obviously, this industry doesn’t have any any lack of podcasts talking about everything that’s going on in the industry. But one of the things that just really, you know, kind of popped out to me is that all of those podcasts are when they deal with MLS issues, are dealing from the MLS from, from the outside in, from a vendor base, in from a broker base, in from a, you know, consultant basin, and there’s really no voice out there talking from the MLS out and I think that there are a lot of people who think they know the MLS industry, who may know pieces of it. I tell people all the time, when you go to work at at REcore and do some of the things that we’re doing along those lines. It doesn’t really matter if you’ve been in the real estate industry, you’ve seen the top of the iceberg. You haven’t seen the the base, the big the big elements that go on underneath

Katie Smithson  03:10

and what’s lurking below the surface.

Art Carter  03:13

Yeah, I mean, to a certain extent. But you know, I just I want to have that voice out there. I want to give people in the industry, an opportunity to to hear what it is that goes on under, under the water, what, why the the base is so wide, and why, you know, just the tip of the iceberg may make sense to people, and they don’t really understand all of the the base that the work that goes on to provide the industry that the tools and and really, the transparency and the marketplace that we, as a multiple listing service, provide. So that is the primary reason. I don’t want to provide the real estate version of Sheldon Cooper’s flags. You know, fun with flags, but, you know, I want to make it interesting. I do want to, you know, we all watch the we all watch the other podcasts, and you know, especially on the MLS side, I talk to enough of my MLS exec peers, and we all experience some level of angst, some level of anger at some of the things that we hear coming out of some of these podcasts. So I think it’s really giving people a voice from the inside out so and hopefully it helps the brokers and the agents who who may run across this to have a better understanding of what it is that we do. So I think that’s, you know, primarily the driver for me. And you’re going to get a unique perspective as well. You’re going to get something from the inside of the MLS. And I think Katie, what she really brings to the table is she’s had both sides of the experience, and she understands what it means to be a vendor and what it means to do some of the things that you know, selling into an MLS, and knowing that that sales process takes three years. And, you know, none of us really make decisions quickly. And I think that, you know, being a part of that process on the end. Side and understanding, you know, all of the different dynamics and the politics that go into providing services at the MLS level, I think is going to be, hopefully, a very compelling watch for people. We’re going to keep it short and quick. We’re not going to go extensively long in these things, but I, I really, truly hope that people find some value in it. And we’d love to hear feedback from people and things that you would like to hear.

Katie Smithson  05:24

Yeah, I think that’s a really great point. You know, our goal is going to be to bring in those different players, not just from the MLS side, not just from the vendor side, but, like you said, the agent side, the broker perspective, and have these conversations so it doesn’t feel like such a siloed process. You know, for you know, we want the brokers to understand what MLSs are doing for them. We want to understand what brokers need to do their jobs better. And obviously from the vendor perspective. And I’ve been out in the industry on the vendor side for a very long time, and there’s also just, I think, a lot of misunderstanding from a vendor perspective, especially the new vendors coming into the space. So I think if we can educate and provide clarity and transparency, then I think that’s a good thing for the industry. Yes. So yeah. So shifting gears a little bit art, obviously, you’ve been in this space for a long time. You’ve been a leader at CRMLS for many, many years. At what point did you realize that there was something that needed to change from the from the product side, from the pain points that you were experienced on the experiencing on the MLS side?

Art Carter  06:40

Yeah, I stepped into this world in 1997 working at a the largest, one of the largest local associations in the country. And I’ll be honest with you, it was a foreign experience. Things operate on a different timetable. It’s a different experience in as much as all of us are trying to move to this direction of acting more like businesses. It is a different world, and it’s a different perspective. From the CRMLS standpoint, you know, it’s still holding those dual roles. It really concerned me that, starting in in really in 2015 that Wall Street and VC firms. You know, we’re more actively looking at prop tech as a their next arena to acquire companies and to invest and really kind of change that dynamic. And, you know, to a large extent, that’s that’s been great. You know, the the lack of, and I don’t mean to offend anybody, it still will, but the lack of innovation that had been in, you know, evident in the space for a long period of time really needed some change. And to change, you need the infusion of capital. And so it was a positive thing, but it also had a unpleasant effect of removing more and more of the decision making process farther and farther away from the multiple listing service and from brokers and agents, and really to level set all of that, you know, I think there really needs to be a greater, you know, cohesion between the multiple listing service and and the products and services in which we provide. And, you know, at the cmls level, you know, coming into 2016 2017 we had decided that we were going to do some heavy investment into the tech side, really, on the back end, database side of things, I’m a firm believer that every MLS really should control their their data experience and as much as they possibly can. And we’ve grown to the size that, you know, 100,000 plus members, that we could invest in the technology and do some of those things. And really, you know, the goal at the CRMLS level was more enhancing our infrastructure and owning our infrastructure. And that’s really the genesis of a lot of the products behind our core is really Sierra Melissa’s desire to to control that experience to a larger extent. There were so many times that trying to provide a user experience that made sense to our users was very, very difficult, because a vendor is going to look at a nationwide footprint, and everything that you do has got to fit into that nationwide footprint, and especially with our size, that didn’t occur very often. And so there were a lot of unrequited needs and desires from our brokers and agents that we just couldn’t deliver. And so we started, you know, morphing more into some of the the user experiences. And really that was the genesis to building a a pretty robust core set of technology pieces for CRMLS as a whole. And more and more I talked with people, the more and more I recognize that all of us are facing some of the same issues, and that that jump into REcore to CRMLS Setting up REcore. Funding it with with money and funding it primarily with technology, was not a really, you know, big leap, and that’s really why we’re we’re we exist. We are for the industry, by the industry. We have multiple MLS investors. We obviously are doing everything we possibly can to listen to the community, and we’re building technology that, you know, part of, part of the industry’s problem, especially with some of the legacy systems, is the customizability of those platforms is very, very limited. And, you know, I think that that’s really Katie, you know, it’s, it’s one of the core premises behind REcore is that we are going to build software that is configurable in every marketplace in which it sits. So, you know, that’s really kind of kind of the goal on that side.

Katie Smithson  10:54

So was there, like a specific moment where CRMLS decided, like that. REcore, was the direction you needed to go creating this new company? Or was it just, you know, was it just over time? That’s how that kind of shifted, what? What was the impetus that kind of got that going? And, I mean, how did you make it happen? Because it’s not. It was not, I don’t think, an easy process to say, hey, we’re going to take this technology that CRMLS has spent time and money and, you know, blood, sweat and tears, building and creating, and then move it over into this, this new company that was, that was, I would assume, a pretty big bet on, on your Part, break time out if you’re ready to put AI to work for your staff and your membership, it’s time to check out navigator. REcore is the exclusive reseller of navigator by Lundy head to REcore.net, forward slash navigator to learn more. All right, back to the show.

Art Carter  11:57

Yeah, and it was a big bet on the CRMLS board of directors part, you know, really, just looking at the industry rolling into 2020, you know, we’re, we’re faced with a pandemic at that time. Obviously, you know, the VC funds had dried up during that timeframe. And, you know, really, just making sure that innovation was continuing to happen, that was an easy sell for my board of directors. On the cmls side, I’ve got a great board of directors. They are very forward thinking and forward looking. They understand that, you know, that the core investment that they put into all of this may never get returned, you know, or be returned over a long period of time, but it was more making an investment in the industry and making sure that those innovation pieces could come along. So, you know that that setting up and operating, you know, REcore is a separate entity. January 1 2023, was the, the kickoff piece of that we moved the technical teams and and moved over, you know, all of those elements into a new CO and, you know, started the process of, you know, going to the industry and saying that we do have a different proposition. We’ve got other MLS is such as Maris and and North Star have invested in what it is that we’re doing. We’re actively going out and talking with as many MLS as we can about providing products and services. So, you know, it was, it was a primary, you know, jump, a leap of faith by by CRMLS, but I think over the course of these three years, CRMLS, two and a half, little over two years, it’s very, very easy for cmls and and the other investors to see that this was the right move. And there’s so many, so many challenges that MLSs are facing. Some of them they are not even really aware of, that we’re trying to stay on top of and really deliver, deliver more value from an MLS out standpoint as we possibly can.

Katie Smithson  14:00

So I want to go back to something you said a minute ago about, you know, the what CRMLS may or may not get back over time from their investment. I think it’s important to note that REcore was formed not to build up really quickly and sell off for some huge profit. And, you know, you get to walk away and forget everybody in this industry and build a house in Cabo, or whatever. The point of our E core really is, we are investing in the industry. It’s very important to us to to build products and services, to listen to the stakeholders out there the MLS is the associations, the brokers and continue to innovate and provide tools and services that are going to keep the industry going. And I, you know, I think to your point, there are a lot of MLS is out there that don’t, aren’t necessarily aware of. Some of the challenges that we are facing as an industry, and we are at, I think, I think, pretty delicate time right now from an MLS perspective, from from the broker perspective, I guess do you want to talk a little bit more about that from your perspective? I mean, I know I have my own thoughts, and

Art Carter  15:20

yeah, that was one of the driving factors behind Sierra Melissa doing what they did, is that we’re very concerned, and still are concerned, that so many of the vendors had been bought and sold by numerous different entities. We had 40 some odd products that we entered, 2017 with almost all of them have been bought and sold, some of them more than once. Some of them have been shut down by those that have been that have purchased them. So obviously, there’s a lot of of lot of concern about the risk of of actually still being able to provide MLS services effectively. You know, given you know, some of the issues that are having that are going on in the space, and the worst thing to have is to have a organization that you rely upon for all of your infrastructure needs to be sold to somebody else, and a new sheriff comes into town, and they’ve got very different ideas about how things should be operated or monetized, or, you know, capitalized. And so you’ve got to, you’ve got to really depend upon those entities that you can trust on. And from a trust standpoint, you know, know that REcore is owned by MLSs will always be owned by MLSs. There is no exit strategy for any MLS that invest in cmls Other than, you know, enjoying dividends, as we potentially make, you know, profits that require dividends going forward. I think it’s very important to note that we’re not there’s no exit strategy. There is no there is no private equity, there is no VC. There is no buyout provision for anything that Ari Corps has got going. It is owned by MLSs for MLSs and will remain that way. Our bylaws are written that way, and every single owner would have to agree to that premise in order for anything to change on that side. And I don’t even ever see that ever, ever happening?

Katie Smithson  17:23

Yeah, is, if there were one thing about the MLS industry that you could change, what would it be? I mean, I feel like that kind of goes along with what you were just saying. But if there’s like, one bigger kind of idea that you could change in this industry.

Art Carter  17:44

What would you do? I would love to have you know, deeper discussions with both sides of the industry, the MLS side and the broker side. We are both on the same side. We may be different sides of the coin, but it’s the same coin, and we exist at the MLS level to service the brokerage community. And I think that there is this element of distrust of what it is that we’re doing, what we’re trying to do. And if I could change one thing about the industry is that, you know, typically, countries don’t fall from the outside, they fall from the inside. And you know, this industry, especially this partnership in between brokerages and MLS, is so important, it’s important to the consumer. And if there’s one thing that I can do is is, you know, help repair that, that relationship, because we’re not all that different. We may have elements of what it is that we do, that we have differences on, but the core purpose is to give the consumer the best possible experience that they possibly can get, and I think we’re both in lockstep in regards to that, how we get there, that may be the argument, but that is not a reason to lose trust in each other, and I think that That that’d be the one thing that I would change if I could.

Katie Smithson  19:05

Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think that. I mean, I think if we could just have more conversations, as opposed to just, you know, putting stuff out there on social media or or in bigger media outlets, you know, instead of just making these assumptions, actually coming to the table and having more conversations between you know, what the MLS is looking to accomplish, what do the brokers need? And like you said, I think the end goal for for both brokers, agents and MLSs is, ultimately, we want to make sure that the consumer is having the best experience, you know, like we the American dream is to own a house and and to, you know, put your roots down. I think for the most part, that’s what most people want. And I think we all want that to make that process easier and more efficient. And. And the more we keep, you know, butting heads against each other about what that looks like, the the harder we’re making it. So if we can just, you know, coalesce a little bit more and have those conversations, I think we would get really far.

Art Carter  20:12

And it’s no different than what’s happening in this country. Everything’s in silos, and nobody’s bridging the silos. I really, honestly, wish we could bridge the silo between brokers and MLSs, Yep,

Katie Smithson  20:25

totally agree. Do you think that there’s anything from a technology standpoint that helps that, or is it? Is it more just having the conversations?

Art Carter  20:36

And I think the conversations need to occur. You know, obviously technology is, is going to further, you know, both of our, our efforts. You know, the one thing, the reason why I’m so concerned about the relationship, is that, you know, not to, not to use it as a as a beating post, but AI is something that we as an industry need to understand, get our arms around and understand how to effectively govern, because there are, there are efforts underway that that you know could have a huge impact on what brokers and agents do and how they Do it, and without a concerted effort by brokers and agents and and the MLS is to make sure that it’s governed in a way that that benefits the consumer. I think longer term, we’re going to have some problems, and that’s why I really that, is that my main wish is that we could get together and have some of these conversations.

Katie Smithson  21:39

All right, I want to take it down from like the larger industry conversation, and get back a little bit more specifically to REcore in 10 years. What do you want the industry? How do you want the industry to perceive REcore,

Art Carter  21:55

a trusted partner. You know, back when I started in this industry, I had partners, and now I I feel and like I said I don’t mean to offend people. I probably will, but now I feel like I have, it’s not a it’s not a true partnership, and it’s something that I want REcore to fill. You know, that role and you need to be able to trust your partners, you need to be able to communicate with your partners. You need to be able to have those tough talk conversations at times, with your partners and REcore, that is my, my wish for REcore in 10 years, is that it is a trusted partner to the industry partner in the truest sense of the word, where it is a two way relationship, and both sides get what they need out of the other side.

Katie Smithson  22:43

And so do you think you know right now, when somebody chooses to work with REcore? I mean, I know this is how I feel. I personally feel that when you choose to work with us, you’re choosing us because we are that trusted person or that trusted partner. I think we have obviously a lot of runway to grow more. Do you think that’s what people are choosing when they actually choose to work with REcore?

Art Carter  23:09

I would hope so. You know, I we just came off the MLS reset conference, and I jokingly said that I think some perceptions of CRMLS and our Carter are wrong. I’m like Jessica Rabbit. I’m not bad, I’m just drawn that way. So I think that as more people get to understand what it is that we’re about, you know, especially on the brokerage side, on other MLS side, you know, we’ve got a lot in common, and I would hope that that trusted relationship that I have across the industry with a ton of different people would play out into having more partnerships with MLSs across the board.

Katie Smithson  23:48

Awesome. Well, I think this has been a great conversation. I appreciate all the work that you have put into, you know, creating REcore and and giving us all the tools and resources that we need to continue building and innovating. I’m excited about what we are doing. You know, we’re not here to disrupt the industry. We really just want to serve and I think that, you know, the people that are the employees that we have at our record, the relationships that we’ve built, the the investors that we have like we are really here to serve the industry and make it a stronger place. So appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today. Art, I think this is fun. I’m looking forward to our next Conversations, whatever that might be. So I hope everybody enjoyed this, and we will catch you next time. Love your feedback.

Art Carter 24:43

Thank you. 

Katie Smithson  24:44

That wraps up this episode of REpod. If this conversation made you think differently, don’t keep it to yourself. Subscribe, share it with your network, and sign up for our newsletter to stay in the conversation. The future of organized real estate gets better when leaders engage.